2019 WORLD CUP – Liverpool

Home Forum International 2019 WORLD CUP – Liverpool

This topic contains 84 replies, has 24 voices, and was last updated by  Ian Jan 17, 2019 at 10:29 pm.

Viewing 15 posts - 16 through 30 (of 85 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #1102257
    Ian
    • Posts: 14822

    Member since:
    Feb 3, 2007

    #1102260
    Brig
    • Posts: 889

    Member since:
    Mar 23, 2013

    And the tournament format is up.
    https://www.nwc2019.co.uk/competition-format/?dm_i=4NZK,785N,2Q875D,S5FA,1

    Looks like they are trying to keep the competitive games by dropping the bottom 4 teams into their own pool after the initial round, then the next bottom team dropped after the 2nd stage. And giving 5th -8th ranked teams that chance to crack one of the top 4 teams in either stage 1 or stage 2, before having that extra game for the placing. Just trying to count the number of games, the Comm Games Tournament has 7 games in 11 days. It is hard to tell but I think that there would be 8-9 games in 9 days?

    Preliminaries Stage One (12-14 July)

    Teams will compete in four round-robin groups (A, B, C and D) which each consist of four teams.
    Teams are assigned to their preliminary groups by seeding based on their world rankings. The top eight teams are pre-assigned to groups, with one team from the 9th-12th seeds and one from the 13th-16th seeds drawn randomly into each group. A regional override will be applied to prevent more than two teams from one region being drawn into the same preliminary group.
    Group A: 1st seed, 8th seed, 9-12th seed, 13th – 16th seed
    Group B: 3rd seed, 6th seed, 9-12th seed, 13th – 16th seed
    Group C: 4th seed, 5th seed, 9-12th seed, 13th – 16th seed
    Group D: 2nd seed, 7th seed, 9-12th seed, 13th – 16th seed
    The top three finishers in each group will then progress to the Preliminaries: Stage Two to compete for the title.
    More information about the qualification process for the Netball World Cup 2019 and world rankings can be found here.
    Preliminaries Stage Two (14-18 July)

    In the second stage of the competition, the top three teams from groups A and B will form group F, and the top three teams from groups C and D will form group G. The bottom four finishers from groups A-D will compete for 13th-16th places in group E.
    Where teams in groups F and G have already played each other in the Preliminaries Stage One (i.e. A1 has already played A2 and A3), these results will carry through to the Preliminaries Stage Two.
    Play-offs and Placings (19-21 July)

    Groups F and G
    The teams finishing first and second in groups F and G will go through to the semi-finals, with the top placed team in each group facing the second placed team in the other group. The winners of each semi-final will compete for gold in the final, with the losers playing for bronze.
    The teams finishing third and fourth in groups F and G will compete for final positions fifth to eighth – third in one group plays fourth in the other – with the winners playing off for fifth place and the losers for seventh.
    The teams that finish fifth in groups F and G will play off for ninth and 10th places.
    The teams that finish last in groups F and G will play off for 11th and 12th places.
    Group E
    The top two teams from group E will play off for 13th and 14th place and the bottom two teams will play off for 15th and 16th place.

    #1102264
    triton
    • Posts: 1111

    Member since:
    Jul 23, 2014

    So they’ve ditched the contrived, unbalanced and unfair system they used in Sydney, which all revolved around having Aus v. NZ in the preliminary round. Thank goodness for that.

    #1102265
    caribou
    • Posts: 566

    Member since:
    Nov 12, 2010

    I like this structure. It should deliver more competitive games for all teams, opportunity for the bottom half of the teams, and only expose the bottom four to one thrashing from one of the top four.

    Also, at least 15 of the teams will get to win a game at the World Cup.

    #1102275
    Ian
    • Posts: 14822

    Member since:
    Feb 3, 2007

    That’s more like it. Very fair.

    Sydney2015 never made any acknowledgement at all that their format was incredibly unfair. They thought it was just wonderful.

    #1102276
    Ian
    • Posts: 14822

    Member since:
    Feb 3, 2007

    So they’ve ditched the contrived, unbalanced and unfair system they used in Sydney, which all revolved around having Aus v. NZ in the preliminary round. Thank goodness for that.

    Worst thing about that was that you can actually devise a format where Aust plays NZ in the prelims and yet you still have a system fair to everyone. But in Sydney, they didn’t care about what happened to other teams.

    #1102280
    CharlesWB
    • Posts: 1085

    Member since:
    Jan 2, 2017

    Sorry, a bit dense here today, can someone explain what this means? (with diagrams if necessary ;-) )

    “Where teams in groups F and G have already played each other in the Preliminaries Stage One (i.e. A1 has already played A2 and A3), these results will carry through to the Preliminaries Stage Two.” (that’s my emphasis, that’s the bit I don’t understand what they are getting at.)

    #1102284
    Ian
    • Posts: 14822

    Member since:
    Feb 3, 2007

    Was just about to post that I thought some might be confused about this.

    Let’s say the top three teams in Group A are Australia, Northern Ireland and Barbados. When they progress to Group F, they would take whatever points they earned in matches between themselves in Group A. So let’s say that in Group A, Australia beat both teams and NI beat Barbados. When they progress to Group F, Australia would already be on 4 points, NI on 2 points and Barbados on 0. And they wouldn’t play each other again. They would only play the 3 teams to progress from Group B.

    #1102288
    triton
    • Posts: 1111

    Member since:
    Jul 23, 2014

    Yes, that’s my understanding too. There will be six teams each in groups F and G. I gather that means that each of the six teams in those groups will play three games in stage 2, all against the teams they haven’t played yet. So that’s eight games total for the top teams including the semi and medal game.

    Edit: It looks like the top eight teams play 8 games each and the bottom eight 7 games each, for a total of 60 games for the tournament.

    #1102320
    CharlesWB
    • Posts: 1085

    Member since:
    Jan 2, 2017

    Yeah still don’t see it clearly but that’s ok.

    I don’t see why points from the previous round/stage should carry through (would think all teams should be on equal footing at the start of the stage). I mean taking Pool F, if teams 4, 5 and 6 come through to Pool F with less points than any of teams 1, 2 or 3, (Which is certainly possible) then surely they are at a disadvantage before that round even starts?

    But I am sure greater minds than mine have thought this through.

    #1102327
    triton
    • Posts: 1111

    Member since:
    Jul 23, 2014

    I don’t see why points from the previous round/stage should carry through

    It looks reasonable to me. The points that carry through were earned against teams in the new group that they’ve already played. I don’t think they should have to play the same teams again in another preliminary stage. The first two stages are connected (by design), not independent.

    #1102333
    CharlesWB
    • Posts: 1085

    Member since:
    Jan 2, 2017

    Yeah I can see the validity of that part of it, but still see the issue I raised, in that teams 4, 5 & 6 in those second stage groups/pools could well be starting at a disadvantage. I don’t see why not just picking the top 12 teams points-wise for the 2nd stage. (personally I don’t see an issue with teams playing each other more than once in the rounds.)

    #1102339
    triton
    • Posts: 1111

    Member since:
    Jul 23, 2014

    The teams at 4, 5 & 6 are at a disadvantage, and deliberately so – they lost games against teams above them. The first two stages are really one stage in two parts. In the first part teams earn points (or not) and the lowest teams are dropped for the second part. After the second part the teams in groups F & G have each played six games against different opponents and all the points are added up. The top two teams in each group then play for the medals. That seems quite fair to me.

    There would be too many games and too much repetition if teams faced the same opponent twice in the preliminary stages.

    #1102343
    CharlesWB
    • Posts: 1085

    Member since:
    Jan 2, 2017

    The teams at 4, 5 & 6 are at a disadvantage, and deliberately so – they lost games against teams above them.

    Not necessarily. Teams 4, 5 & 6 are the *top* teams from pool/group B in my example.

    The first two stages are really one stage in two parts. In the first part teams earn points (or not) and the lowest teams are dropped for the second part.

    This is the part that is confusing me or about which I don’r quite see the reasoning, apart from this (below) which I can see and accept as far as too many games being played with a competition of 16:

    There would be too many games and too much repetition if teams faced the same opponent twice in the preliminary stages.

    Again I have no alternative in mind, just that there’s something about this that seems a bit “odd” for want of a better word.

    Can anyone tell how this compares, say , with the football world cup’s way of doing things (apart from the fact that I think their original pools are drawn out of a hat as it were)

    #1102352
    triton
    • Posts: 1111

    Member since:
    Jul 23, 2014

    Not necessarily. Teams 4, 5 & 6 are the *top* teams from pool/group B in my example.

    That’s not possible. In stage 1 there are six wins to share around four teams, so the possibilities are:
    3, 2, 1, 0
    3, 1, 1, 1
    2, 2, 2, 0
    2, 2, 1, 1

    So it’s not possible for the top team in one group to end up with fewer wins than the third team in another. But even if it were, I don’t have a problem with it. The whole point of a tournament is to win games, which every team has a chance to do in stage 1. If you win you are in a better position in stage 2 than if you lose. When two groups are combined after stage 1, the teams at the bottom are there because they haven’t done as well as the teams above them. If you don’t want to be at the bottom, then win your games.

    In the football World Cup, after the round-robin the bottom two teams of the four in each group are eliminated. From there it’s sudden death, with cross-over matches between groups. A lot more cut-throat than the netball WC.

Viewing 15 posts - 16 through 30 (of 85 total)

You must be logged in to reply to this topic.